NOTE: This is for information purposes only and not a reflection of
how LightAV.com or InfiniteElectronix.com do business.
This is very important concerning the validity
purchased on the internet.
I have taken a position of telling the consumers the truth
instead of deceiving them.
This page is for information purposes, so you the consumer can make
a better buying decision.
Some of the information here might be out of date as it has been
compiled over about 8 years!!
Other recent companies that have contacted me either to remove the line
from the site or put prices to MAP. Massive Audio, Linear Corp, Pioneer
Pro DJ (Remove It All), Sirius / XM Radio, Clarion,
Bazooka, Peerless, Optoma, Scosche, Gemini, and a
number of others. Many have tried to stop the web and given up because
it is too easy to be anonymous these days online. PO Box or no address,
no phone number and all your transactions run through PayPal or
Amazon.. I have even had regional reps "advise" me on how
to take your own pictures, write your own or have no
discription, and then you can violate pricing policies..
Starting in 10/09 Onkyo Cut off all distribution of their line
sales to unauthorized dealers. This followed with Harman International
(Infinity, JBL, Harman Kardon) cutting of distribution in
November. After that a spree of manufacturers went after me and
my site and many of the distributors that I know of that sell to
internet sellers, ebayers, amazoners, etc.. Most manufacturuers
wanted each and every buyer that bought through distribution to sign
contracts aggreeing to follow MAP, Minimum Advertised Price, or they
will not be able to get that line through distribution. The only other
means is direct, or in most cases these days, SIDEWAYS with no serial
numbers.... Many you may know, some you may not but include, Samsung,
Marantz, SoundStream, JVC, Denon DJ, Panamax, Cerwin
Systems, Security Man, MACE Security, Breckertron, and others...
CES 2011 was 1 month ago.. I have already received Emails from Liquid
Image and Lowrance GPS. I am authorized for Directed Electronics
who own Polk Audio, Orion, Viper, Clifford, Python, Avital, and
Definitive Technologies... 01/22/2011 ALL dealers received a email from
their respective reps warning that DEI would be tracing serial numbers
and cancelling contracts with ANYONE breaking MAP pricing.. I
also received internet MAP selling contracts from Epsilon Electronics
who own SoundStream, Precision Power, Power Acoustik, Farenheit, SPL
and Kole Audio.. As of 2/1/2011 any dealer that breaks MAP will get
cancelled and they will be contractually obligated to pay back 10% of
their dealer discount for all purchases for the previous 6 months from
the date of the infraction... You buy $50K from them and get
caught, you are on the hook for at least $3K or so.. JBL's contracts
are 3x that amount. This is just the beginning, over time consumers
will see more and more lines disappearing from most sites or listed at
more respectful manner. Consumers have been getting electronics as if
they were stereo shops ad custom installers for years now and
unfortunately that day is done.. You either take the high road
like Crutchfield or you play hide and seek... I am taking the high
road.. As I have been saying for years, get your emails ready. It
is almost time for everyone to send an email to Ebay thanking them for
allowing any person with a pulse to sell $10,000 amps for $5 profit on
their service. Jokeofa websites like that that allow people to act like
businesses with no ACTUAL business characteristics should not exist...
Gray market, stolen products, ripoff schemes, Duff Beer, Grilled Cheese
with Jesus's face on it, and all kinds of crap are sold on Ebay for
profit, for commision.. It is time that goes Bye Bye... Ebay is
another story lower on this page.. Mark my words, you will
all see in the coming months, companies that normally carry certain
lines will no longer have them, some of the low grade dealers online
like Dealercostcaraudio, car stereo needs, etc. will end up gone
entirely. Consumers will be left with ACTUAL dealers for the
products, REAL businesses with no warranty issues, valid serial
numbers, full support, etc.. Consumers will not be left with what I
call the finger warranty... If consumers are smart enough they will be
able to get deals, they will just have to put a little more work into
it.. They won't be able to bot it up on google and find 100 dealers in
a database all making $1 on a $100 product and all within $.05 of
eachother... Don't get me wrong... I started this, when I
started in 1995 Ebay was 6 months old, I was making prifit online
before Amazon.com. I started doing this to help people get deals on
higher end gear that I had just paid retail price for.. That is what
made me think of doing it, that is why I put up the pages to sell
it.. I did not think 16 years later, I would be nickel and dimed
to $20 profit on a $1000 amp only to have them call back cause they
hooked it up wrong, blew it up and now they want a warranty on my
dime... That is not retail, that is not business, that is the
SWAP MEET... Should a Samsung 65" 1080P 240Hz 3D TV be sold at
the swap meet by a guy that doesn't know the difference between that
and his 13" B/W CRT??? Besides its bigger??? No.. But it goes on
all day long on Ebay and the rest of the net all in pursuit of who can
sell the most expensive thing with the least amount of profit on it...
10% is the going rate... My company has molded and adapted through
these issues and as I have told 1000 people on the phone.. I will be
the last one standing cause all the rest got cut off... You are
always welcome to call with any questions or clarification...
Old Info:: I have personally received letters from Kicker,
Rockford Fosgate, Yamaha, Harman International, Russound, BelTronics,
Clarion, MTX, Sanus, JBL, Denon, Sony, Cadence.. Basically
telling me (and everyone) to stop selling their
products online.. I have also gotten calls from Phoenix Gold, MB Quart,
and various others.. Most internet sites have taken the position of
deceiving the consumer and telling them that their products come with
FULL manufacturers warranties.. There is no truth to this at all. You
can call or visit many of the manufacturers websites now where they
warn you that they do not allow internet sales and offer no factory
warranty for products purchased on the internet. In addition
manufacturuers will not update firmware, or replace recalled
links are below...
Here are the 2 main rules that are broken by selling on the internet.
Receiving products in your store and shipping them to other parts of
the country infringing on another dealers territories.
structure: You are not allowed to advertise below certain price
level designated by the manufacturers. This is basically Crutchfield
type pricing. The reason for that is to level the playing field so each
dealer is not nickel and dimeing eachother on a $3000 LCD TV. Dealers
can sell the product face to face or on the phone at whatever price
they want. The problem with this is that most of the people selling on
the internet do not know what they are selling so they do not want to
have to answer any questions cause it will make them look stupid.. If
the customer feels the retailer is not knowledgeable about the
products, they will be much less likely to buy from them.
If you break these rules you can and will lose your
Polk Audio can in fact sue you for triple the money you
SHOULD have made on the products. BY contract..
Been Ripped Off???
Companies that work on behalf of
the manufacturers to shut off internet sales.
For proof about what manufacturers are
Other manufacturers that do not
honor internet sale warranties. Kenwood Excelon,
Clarion, Toshiba, Aiwa, AutoTek, Focal, Dynaudio, JBL, Aiwa,
Sony, Sony ES,
Audio Control, Precision Power, JVC Digifine, OZ Audio,
Cadence, SoundStream, Infinity, Yamaha, Denon, Harman Kardon, Orion,
Kicker, pretty much all of them at this point...
Serial number removal
Think about this folks.. You
get pulled over by a police officer and they search the car.. They find
your amplifiers, speakers with no serial numbers on them... Is the
stolen??? Who really knows... But.. it is a possibility you could get
Almost every line in car audio is having serial
numbers removed ... Kicker, Polk, Alpine, Kenwood Excelon, Infinity,
Eclipse, Nakamichi, all of them.. This is what is called "Gray Market"
folks. Dealers do this as regular business like it is just OK to do..
Serial number removal has become a normal part of internet sales and
seems to go "unsaid" or hidden by the dealers the stuff is bought
from..Keep in mind that if the dealer
you buy from goes out of business and you have no serial numbers.. You
get no warranty from the manufacturer.. Period!
if they go out of business you will have noone to turn to for help on
$400 amp, or $600 CD Player.. Remember online that price is not
The cheapest price usually means that that is the person hiding in
closet the best and having the least customer service. Most online
get the stuff from their sources without serial numbers on the boxes.
Also remember that all you need is a spreadsheet and
$50 per month and you can be a "retailer" online..
I spoke with about 20 manufacturers at the show CES
2001-2005 in Las Vegas and all had the same issues with the net..
BBB Online, PriceGrabber, Bizrate, Google Wallet, Verisign,
CNET, GOMEZ Online... Read
A member service only. Pay your dues and you are a
certified member.. Even if you take the serial numbers off your
products. They will not and do not look into your business practices.
Click Here for all kinds of E-bay Scams
that have submitted fraudulent orders to Thunder Audio Video
Car Audio Retailers
The internet has come to this.. Who will go down to $1
to make a sale.. At that margin how can a dealer survive?? How can they
fulfill a warranty when they are clearly not authorized by the
can we do anything for you if the dealer makes $1?? You tell me..
Unprofessionalism and criminal activity revolve around many websites
online but how do you know.. All you see is a "store" which is nothing
but pictures and text .
Charles Mansion could be running a site and by the looks of it you
it is run by Mother Theresa.
Keep this in mind people .. In order for a company
stay in business you need to make money.. If you want swap meet style
then go there it is Sunday in your local abandoned drive-in.. If you
dealers that are knowledgeable, have warranties, and get good
prices and product then do your homework.. Don't spam every retailer
asking for the "best price" and have them all battle for the $5 they
get from you. That is not business, that is a joke.
Many more sites list the same as well.. If you need
any further explaination call the tech line or e-mail.. This is not to
scare people it to inform you as to what is REALLY going on. The
internet is turning GRAY MARKET and I hate to see it happen!! When I
started this almost 15 years ago I never thought it would come to
cutting off serial numbers and lying to everyone.
BOTTOM LINE: DO YOUR
HOMEWORK. DONT TAKE EVERYTHING AT FACE VALUE!!
Car Audio Video
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